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Engines used by Grand Banks

 
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gsanchez
Halcyon
Mahón, Menorca, Spain
1973 GB50
Supporting Member

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Engines used by Grand Banks Reply with quote

I came across this site that has information on American Marine, including a detailed list of the engines used in their older boats.

http://www.absolutelyeverythingabout.com/boats/american-marine-ltd/

I can't vouch for how accurate it is!

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Gilberto
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Marin Faure
La Pérouse
Bellingham, WA
1973 GB36-403 (GRP)
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 5125
Sammamish, Washington USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an inaccuracy in the report regarding Ford Lehman 120 engines.

American Marine started out buying the marinized Ford Dorset diesels (aka Ford Lehman 120) directly from Lehman in New Jersey. These engines were painted red and Lehman installed their marinzation kit before sending the engines to American Marine.

At some point in the early 1970s American Marine decided they could save money by purchasing the Ford Dorset diesel directly from Ford of England, buying the Lehman marinization kit directly from Lehman in New Jersey, and marinizing the engines on the shop floor in Singapore next to the boat the engine(s) were going to go into.

To differentiate the American Marine-marinized engines from the Lehman-marinized engines American Marine painted their engines a sort of metallic olive green or a yellow-gold. The engines in our 1973 GB36, from the first batch of fiberglass GB36s made, were painted the olive color (since repainted by a previous owner Detroit Green aka Alpine Green). However the original olive paint is still visible on the motor mounts and other places on the engines.

American Marine did this for a few years until they realized it was a false economy and they were actually spending more to arrive at a Ford Lehman 120 than if they purchased the already-marinzed engines from Lehman themselves. So they went back to buying the red marinized FL120 from Lehman and that was the end of their DIY project with the Ford Dorset and Lehman marinization kits.

So the statement that a Grand Banks with red FL120s is probably a re-engine is incorrect.

As to the other part about the American Marine engines being less powerful than the Lehman-supplied engines, I don't know if that is correct or not. Our American-Marine marinized engines are Model 2715E and have the same Simms in-line, jerk injection pump found on a lot if not most of the Lehman-marinized engines of the same era. And the original owner and engine manuals that came with our boat all spec the power output of the engines at 120 hp @2500 rpm.

The attached photo is not of one of our engines but is a shot I pulled of this forum some years ago. It is an accurate depiction of the olive green American Marine used on its in-house marinizations of the Ford Dorset using the Lehman marinization kit.

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Marin
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relay_guy
Legacy
Port Orchard, WA
1969 42 Classic 42-77

Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marin,
I've seen your post before, thank you for doing that. However I'm not sure how accurate it is. I have 1969 GB 42-77 with FL 2703E engines. One thing about the twins GB used in that era are that they are the 2703, which are 330 CI. Compare this to the single I had in my 1968 GB 32 which was a 2704E at 360 CI.

But, I digress. I'm actually posting because I believe that my 2703E's are original, and they are definitely red. That seems to jive with your post, being painted red and all. The funny thing is that as the red paint has worn it reveals that underneath the red paint is olive green paint. So it looks as if the engines were green and then over-painted with red. The red paint looks old and appears to have been done with them out of the boat a long long time ago. Could it be that they were painted red at the factory? Did they come from FL already green? I have no idea. Thoughts?
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Marin Faure
La Pérouse
Bellingham, WA
1973 GB36-403 (GRP)
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 5125
Sammamish, Washington USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don''t know what color Ford of England painted the engines on the assembly line in Dorset. So I have no idea what color the base engines were when they were received by Lehman or American Marine when AM was buying the base engines directly from Ford. Whatever color they were, Lehman painted them red and American Marine painted them either the olive green or yellow-gold they used when they were installing the Lehman marinization kits themselves in the early 1970s.

The Dorset engine was used far more in industrial and agricultural use than it was in marine use. I recall reading that at the time this engine was in production it was the diesel used by Ford in the US, too, for things like tractors and whatnot. I've never seen an original or restored Ford tractor from this era either in the US or the UK, so I don't know what color the engine was. I assume it would have been the same color Ford of England originally painted it in the Dorset factory.

Also, there were other companies around the world who were marinizing the Ford Dorset diesel, too. Lehman was not the only one. I have no clue what color these other companies were painting their marinized engines or if they simply left them whatever color Ford painted them.

While I am very sure that the two FL120s in our 1973 fiberglass GB36 are 2715Es I will try to remember to look again when I am up at the boat this weekend. It's always possible that the hard drive in my head has switched a few zeros and ones around. Smile

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Marin
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relay_guy
Legacy
Port Orchard, WA
1969 42 Classic 42-77

Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Marin. At some point Lehman went to the 2715E engine from the 2703/4. Don't know when that was but sometime after 1969. I've also heard that the 2703/4 was sleeved and the 2715 wasn't. I have a 1966 era service manual from Ford on the 2700 engines and it verifies that the 2703 was dry sleeved. I'm beginning to sound like a geek...............so by for now.
Pat
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GB42-267
DEBBIE-M
KINGSTON, WA
# 267, 1972 42-CLASSIC
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Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 1400
Poulsbo, WA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my memory serves me right, I believe Bob Smith told me years ago that they received all their engines at Lehman from Ford UK painted blue.
I know a new replacement engine from UK through AD will come painted blue. I bought several of these years ago for a project and they all came directly from England painted blue. I don't know if Bob had ordered them that way or not and if it were even an option.

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Bjorn M
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Marin Faure
La Pérouse
Bellingham, WA
1973 GB36-403 (GRP)
Supporting Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 5125
Sammamish, Washington USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a long time the engine color in Ford vehicles in the US was "Ford Blue." I don't know how long this practice was continued and if it applied to all Ford engines in US vehicles or just some.

The 300 cu in six in the F250 pickup I bought new in 1983 was gray. And the block of the 5.0 litre V-8 in the Ford pickup I bought new in 2013 to replace the 1983 truck is also gray/aluminum. This is the same core V-8 that's offered in the current Mustang.

When I had the engine of my 1973 Land Rover out of the vehicle for some work in the early 80s I had the shop paint it Ford Blue before I reinstalled it as Land Rover's original Robin's Egg Blue engine paint wasn't looking so great by then.

So if the Ford of England Dorset diesel was painted blue at the factory it would not surprise me at all.

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Marin
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